if you disagree with the GOP on this
the opposite is
"unlawful" and "unnecessary"
not
TROUBLING

to just about every Democrat
besides Newsom, Bernie, AOC and a few others,
every despicable, disgraceful, immoral, and illegal act
by this administration and Congress this year has been
"TROUBLING"

What's frightening is that some GOP lawmakers call the boat strikes "lawful". Common sense (oh and the military code of conduct) cannot be more clear on this matter. But then again, Hitler had his officers so why should I be shocked by anything anymore?

indeed. it is amazing what humans can rationalize

the Admiral had an hour to consider the second strike
and a third

even the first was illegal

The Dem pols in DC can be as mealy-mouthed, and weak as they like regarding the crimes of THE LYIN' KING and his cronies, but I'm not going to be any less disgusted, outraged and angry about it. If only we had leaders with as much guts and integrity as those they claim to represent and claim as their supporters... talking about the Dems. And yet people continue to ask me or wonder why so many people on the left and the middle, hate and don't respect the Dem Party and their excuse for pols in DC?

The problem with the party is not messaging, it's the lack of character and courage of the leaders and pols in DC, as well as their policies..

This forum seems (to me) to be the most appropriate for the topic of shaming.

In the December 28, 2025 broadcast of Philoso?hy Talk, the hosts and guest Philosophy Professor Olúfẹ́mi O. Táíwò debate shaming as an appropriate and effective tactic against the utterly shameless. Professor Táíwò is the author of How Can We Live Together?

"If you think about our social environment as a kind of socialization space . . . people are looking around and seeing what other people can get away with and have gotten away with, and modeling what emotions they’re going to cultivate or fail to cultivate in themselves, right? I think it’s no surprise that if people get away with open corruption and bribery and bigotry, that you’re going to not only promote people who are already shameless, but also create and engender shamelessness in people who might have gone a different direction if they had seen different consequences for people . . ."

". . . We live in a social world, and none of us can [combat shamelessness all] by ourselves. Our ability to secure cooperation from other people is a source of vulnerability for most of us, and so I think shame, more often than not, is going to be effective."

On the Philoso?hy Talk website, select the topic The Examined Year: 2025, then click the 16:04 mark on the progress bar. The duration of the debate is about 17 minutes, 33 seconds.

The Repub Party these days, not just THE LYIN' KING, are utterly shameless, and they also usually suffer no consequences for their behavior, so of course as long as that continues, the general public will also mostly choose to go in that same direction, as far as behavior. The same applies to the ultra rich and corporations, also shameless, and rarely suffering consequences for their behavior and actions. More shaming and more equal justice and fair equal treatment under the law, is the only way any of this changes. Even elections will not change the behavior of the Repubs in politics, I fear, as they have decided they can always just cheat their way to winning elections, no matter what the voters want, if elections are even held in the future... My fear of either civil war or permanent dictatorship, without any real future elections, gets worse every day... It's starting to look like civil war may be our only way out of this, but I know our side is never going to agree to wage one against the right wingers.. The other way to overthrow them is general strikes, but those also are never going to happen, because too many working age Americans have their healthcare tied to their jobs, and are living paycheck to paycheck, so boycotts against the worst corporations are probably our best bet for fighting back against our corrupt govt.. Attack their financial backers, and put the pressure on them that way...

When you're right, you're right. And you're right, BobDylan.

To me, Professor Táíwò is naive to believe that saying "Shame!" to The Impenitent will cause them to see the error of their ways and stop their shameless behavior.

During the 1954 Army-McCarthy hearings, lawyer Joseph Welch disgraced Senator Joseph McCarthy when he famously asked the ruthless Communist-witch hunter,

"Have you no sense of decency, sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?"

Back then Welch's public shaming exposed McCarthy as the villain he was, destroyed his crusader image, made him a pariah among his colleagues in the Senate, and arguably ended McCarthyism*. Seventy-two years later, the spirit of Joseph Welch endures via "left-wing" media outlets such as MS NOW, The Nation, Pacifica Radio, and newBluePlanet. But 21st century GOP reincarnations of "Tail-Gunner Joe," to date, have proven themselves to be made of sterner stuff -- monsters with hearts of stone who are impermeable to criticism and censure . . . and shame.

Alas, shame won't cut it in modern America. By my lights, stronger measures for defeating The Shameless are needed. Measures considerably stronger than "our side" (as you put it) dare advocate and support (Paging Luigi and Tyler!). I'm inclined to agree with you that boycotts -- financial boycotts -- would be the best stratagem to fight and cripple, if not defeat, autocrats and their acolytes and toadies.

But, good luck with that.

* With notable "assistance" from broadcast journalist Edward R. Murrow.

I agree with anyone who says that shaming will still work a lot of the time, even these days, but only on ordinary people who do not possess great wealth or power. But those who have one or both of those things, are now immune from feeling shame or really suffering much from being publicly shamed. I did some thinking about our present dilemma, and one other strategy did come to mind, related to this. And that would be large, ongoing public protests directly outside the homes of the shameless public officials and pols, putting the heat on them and their neighbors for their corrupt policies and actions. But that tactic is much more risky than targeted boycotts, because most of them will have security details, either privately hired, or publicly funded, as well as usually having the local cops on their side. So the protestors risk being arrested, jailed, or even shot for their involvement. And unlike the civil rights and anti war movement during Vietnam, the courts are much more right wing and supportive of cracking down on protestors, unless they are right wing protestors. So the only hope with that tactic, would be supplying lawyers, free of charge, for any protestor arrested, and then going for jury nullification after seeking a jury trial for each protestor. Lots of risk all around for the protest movement...

On 1/6/2026 at 7:54 PM, BobDylan said:

"I agree with anyone who says that shaming will still work a lot of the time, even these days, but only on ordinary people who do not possess great wealth or power . . ."

I am more pessimistic than you are, BD. I don't think that, in this American era, shaming works. At all.

After Renee Nicole Good was murdered by an ICE agent, one of her neighbors repeatedly screamed "SHAME!" at the agent.

Today Vice-President JD Vance sternly lectured the press,

". . . Everybody who's been repeating the lie that this is some innocent woman who was out for a drive in Minneapolis when a law enforcement officer shot at her, you should be ashamed of yourselves. Every single one of you."

Everybody's playing The Shame Game. De Republicans get shamed. De Democrats get shamed. De Right get shamed. De Left get shamed. De Media get shamed.

All God's chillun get shamed. But, nobody is ever ashamed.

On 1/6/2026 at 7:54 PM, BobDylan said:

". . . And that would be large, ongoing public protests directly outside the homes of the shameless public officials and pols, putting the heat on them and their neighbors for their corrupt policies and actions. But that tactic is much more risky than targeted boycotts, because most of them will have security details, either privately hired, or publicly funded, as well as usually having the local cops on their side."

. . . or when the revolution comes, citizens will arm themselves. Remember this couple?

I think you're right. As Malcom X said long ago, " America respects violence, it was founded on violence. I think it's the only thing it respects". Whether you agree with that or not, it's clear that violence, or at least physical force, is the only thing that fascists like THE LYIN' KING and his supporters and cronies respect... And yes, I remember that couple, and it made me think it's not a bad idea for peaceful protestors to have a couple of armed guards or security people at their protests, at least if there are no cops on duty around them to be able to protect them against nuts like that couple..

Oh, I do indeed agree with Malcolm X.

Power only understands, respects, and heeds power.

The violent only understand, respect, and heed violence.

My father would growl at my siblings and me when he got tired of hearing us crying, "Stop that crying or I'll give you something to cry about" (a horrible thing to say to a child . . . or anyone, for that matter).

The current administration is always crying about the "radical left" and the threat that leftists are to America. To which I growl, "Stop that crying or we'll give you something to cry about!"

Hit it, Panthers!

Revolution has come
Off the pigs!
Time to pick up the gun
Off the pigs!

I agree that we need something like the Panthers these days, as it would scare the 💩 out of MAGA and ICE. Only this time, hopefully the feds, cops, and FBI wouldn't be able to massacre and crush them.. and these days, the "radical left" and any "leftist threat" is simply more MAGA lies, propaganda, and figments of their imagination, at best. But mostly the first two of the three... The right has revolutionaries, who have succeeded thru a political coup. The left needs revolutionaries too now, tho our side is unlikely to ever win thru electoral politics, because money is way too powerful in that arena these days, compared to the 1960s...

we don't need more Panthers. we need more MLK's.

13 hours ago, V.3 said:

we don't need more Panthers. we need more MLK's.

. . . and look what happened to Martin Luther King, Jr. . . . and Mahatma Gandhi . . . and Jesus Christ, to list but a few promoters of nonviolence and peaceful protest. Of course, King's contemporary activist Malcolm X (who advocated self-defense "by whatever means necessary" and who called MLK a "chump") was also murdered.

Assassination has the same outcome for radicals pacifist and militant.

Far be it from me to diss pacifism and peace activism. But extreme threats call for extreme measures. If anyone reading this does not believe that America is currently in the throes of political, autocratic, nationalist, and totalitarian extremism . . .

Well, whatever you're smoking, drinking, snorting, or popping, I hope that you have enough for everybody.

I'm no fan of General George S. Patton. But in these extremist times, I think that attention must be paid, by doves, to his famous reminder to American troops:

"I want you to remember that no b-a-s-t-a-r-d ever won a war by dying for his country. He won it by making the other poor, dumb b-a-s-t-a-r-d die for his country."

By all means, give peace a chance. But there'll be a skyful of pork when marching alone . . . when sign-carrying alone . . . when editorializing alone . . . when petitioning alone . . . when preaching alone . . . when screaming "SHAME!" at a murderer alone . . . or all those nonviolent protests combined overcome and defeat tyranny.

Suggested Reading

Nonviolence and Black Self-Defense

The Problem with Pacifism: How Pacifism Can Lead to Genocide and Why One Should Fight to Combat Evil

Thanks mac, you said it all, way better than I would, in replying to V.'s comment. We are in fascism already here in the US, even if the corporate media and the Dem Party won't use the F-word. Renee Good's murder officially sealed it, along with the coverup that began immediately afterwards and the clear picture that Jonathan Ross is going to completely get away with it, along with THE LYIN' KING and Noem.. And none of the progress of the sixties, such as civil rights, ending the Vietnam War, or the passing of the Great Society programs like Medicaid and Medicare, as well as the anti poverty programs, would have happened if we had only had MLK and peaceful protestors, etc.. Without the Panthers, the SDS and the Weathermen, waging radical civil war against the feds, the powers that be would never have made those concessions that I listed above, to the masses here. The sad thing is, as mac pointed out, that radicals of both types of movements, peaceful and violent, end up usually being either murdered, imprisoned or exiled by the state, rather than being rewarded, honored, or allowed to actually gain or hold power in the government.. So I stand by my point, we need more radicals like the Black Panthers, not less, and as long as they aren't committing violence against innocent people, who are not acting corruptly against the rights of the people, like shooting peaceful protestors or committing racist violence against minorities, I am fine with them fighting back for us.. Because the cops and the Dems sure as hell aren't going to fight for us or protect us against these fascists.

The irony is that saying these kind of obvious truths would get me banned on reddit, a supposedly left-leaning site, yet owned by a right wing billionaire oligarch, so no surprise that reddit ends up being no more tolerant or open-minded about political dissension than Facebook. I hope that this site does better by us than those two have so far, under THE LYIN' KING rule...

And as far as the Dem Party, what needs fixed is not their messaging, but their policies, esp. on economics, foreign policy, and civil liberties, where they are mainly Repub lite, as well as their actions, esp. when they are in power in DC. Like not delivering on much of their campaign promises. THE LYIN' KING and the Repubs can get away with doing that, because no one outside of their cult ever believes them anyway on their promises, but the Dems will always be held to a higher standard. Time to accept that and start earning the trust and loyalty of the voters, instead of running completely on how bad THE LYIN' KING is and "at least we aren't the Repubs"... All the Repub and MAGA voters care about, is THE LYIN' KING hurting and hating on the same people they hate, not him delivering on his campaign promises. Until he starts actually hurting them, they won't ever wake up or turn on him, much less start caring about the people they hate being hurt..

gentlemen, or, should i say, warriors

your sentiments are understandable given the current pressures on our psyches. But Malcolm X was wrong. Violence as an offensive strategy is always wrong. He accomplished nothing but to feed into the stereotypes that fueled racism. MLK succeeded by inspired masses of people to protest, including non-blacks. Gandhi also proved that masses don't need clubs, knives, or guns in their hand.

the "fight fire with fire" philosophy, which we need today, is one that utilizes all legal, non-violent methods to confront violence and illegality. We have, unfortunately, been subjected to the creep of immorality to the extent that good people like yourselves may now be open to unethical behavior as a counter measure. The creep started with this Prez getting away with breaking laws and moral standards in his first term, and treating both citizens and non-citizens inhumanely. The first key breakdown was those on the left, granted him permission to treat "illegals" inhumanely.

in sociological terms this rogue leader has tapped into the "reptilian" part of the human brain often described as the "fight or flight" instinct in nature. We have evolved, should have evolved beyond that. In esoteric terms, it could be called a separation from source -- the energy we all share. Or, in some wise words of a light transmitter, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

practically speaking, morality can not be forced via immoral methods. For one thing, don't wager on ethical beings swinging a sword with more force and accuracy than the immoral. The immoral are better at violence, destruction, and intimidation -- without limitations of mercy or empathy.

nay, brothers, we didn't go wrong by not fighting with them physically. we went wrong by not fighting with them intellectually and spiritually. And the tool at hand, that was not applied and enforced was LEGALITY. Yes, we're missing some laws, but enough were in place to nip their leader in the butt before the creep took hold his first term. We mistakenly trusted politicians on the left to do their jobs rather than just focus on keeping their jobs the next election because the other side was worse.

so, NO. we don't have to be more like them. The separation, the survival of the fittest, the CREEP is about to spread into the world via the abandoning of the better part of America's examples and standards. It started with the incivility within Americas borders that we allowed.

To reiterate and summarize. Justice is a legal matter. The strength that matters is not physical. It's in numbers. Not weapons.

Re-align with what IS right, rather than THE right!

I can't speak for you, but I can for myself, and I am part of the left, ineffectual, marginalized, and tiny as it is in the US. But don't ever confuse the left with the Dem Party, as the Dem Party hates the left and it's the corrupt Dem Party that sold out undoc immigrants during THE LYIN' KING's first term, not the left. It's an important distinction.. And I think we can both agree that the Dem Party paved the way for THE LYIN' KING's two terms, by shafting Bernie and instead both election cycles running corporate centrist candidates, whose main selling point was them not being THE LYIN' KING, rather than campaign platforms that actually addressed the grievances and problems of ordinary Americans.. You might even say, that the Dem Party campaigns like they don't really care about winning elections, only about defeating progressives and enjoying their continued perks and privileges as the minority party in DC... Opposing the Repubs only on culture war issues just isn't cutting it anymore, not with most voters..

transcript of live conversation

LINDY: i believe international law needs to come into play. NATO should take action

V3: i'm a firm believer in the U.N. concept, but i believe the other nations right now would say it's up to the American people to step up, and i'd have to agree

but, how can we do that if he has control of everything

imo, it would start with the Democrats and rational Republicans taking all the legal steps, as per their oath. Call for investigations and initiate impeachments and force the Republicans to block responsible action. Then would come the interesting part. How the people should step up the pressure

i don't know. we are protesting. calling and writing. telling them they will lose elections. what else can we do?

we need to circle the wagons. unite, and leave aside our strategic differences to organize/coordininate action with a focus on consumer pressure. Sure we've done No Kings Day but it's a general protest, without calling for specific action. We need a leader or group of leaders -- and all progressive political organizations to work together on boycotts primarily, and protests to support that action.

we've tried that. it doesn't seem to work.

we've haven't tried it TOGETHER. so it is the together part that is our weakness. the last blackout was misguided, mistimed, and lacked the right message communicated widely among us all

we need people to work out of work too. but it's very hard to do

you said it. there are limits to citizen's willingness to sacrifice -- to participate

what about not paying taxes

same thing. that's illegal and people would have to be willing to go to jail

not if we all do it together

indeed, the TOGETHER thing is the key. we can accomplish anything together, at the same time, we have the power

what if the King withholds funding for blue states as punishment

he would be breaking the law and it would again come down to our Reps starting the impeachment and us forcing it into reality

to be continued...

3 hours ago, V.3 said:

". . . Violence as an offensive strategy is always wrong . . ."

Say that to Holocaust survivors and their progeny.

Yo, Guru V.3, I gave your response a "thumb's up" because I applaud your passion and (seemingly) indomitable idealism. Just a "Heads up!" and FYI, the light that you're going to might be an oncoming train.

Meanwhile Back on Planet Earth

As they used to say on Top 40 radio: And the hits just keep on comin'!

How T-R-U-M-P Can Keep the House without Winning the Midterms

1 hour ago, BobDylan said:

"I can't speak for you, but I can for myself . . . Opposing the Repubs only on culture war issues just isn't cutting it anymore, not with most voters."

What he said.

I agree mac. You can't put any kind of cheating past the Repubs and their six traitors on the SC. And if they use fed troops and ICE goons to intimidate voters in blue states, as well as suppressing mail in ballots and purging voter rolls, etc.., they won't even need to declare martial law and cancel the elections. We can take nothing for granted in the new year.. I really do think it will come to civil war, from our side, not just theirs, if we are ever going to get rid of the THE LYIN' KING regime. And as far as offensive violence, any violence from our side is already defensive, not offensive, as the murder in Minnesota made it clear that THE LYIN' KING has already declared an offensive war against our side. It's just that most people on our side haven't woke up to that fact yet...

As for V.'s convo with Lindy, I agree that the Dem Party is not providing any real leaders or guidance to our side, as far as direct action thru strikes, boycotts, and blackouts, and without those things, instead of just one day protests, nothing will change. Those three economic actions I mentioned above, are what actually works, because it puts pressure on the corporations that fund both the Dems and Repubs, and so it indirectly does put pressure on the pols of both parties. In that system, the 💩 flows downhill, as they say, from the donors to the pols....

1 hour ago, macphysto said:

Say that to Holocaust survivors

preventing the holocaust is consistent with the approach i outlined. Hitler committed crimes before those atrocities that should have been enforced and justice should have been served before he got out of hand. Indeed laws and justice need to be enforced physically, with weapons if need be. And when Hitler's country allowed the atrocities, the world should step in with force -- weapons if all else fails.

this Prez committed crimes that should have already been brought to justice, force-ably if need be. But not by you or i with pitchforks. The system is in place. It's been abused and corrupted. Civility and integrity is still valued by a significant majority.

a stronger argument would be, what were our alternatives to the Civil War? I'd have to think about that...

ok... the answer is the same. Don't buy products made from slave labor. Don't socialize with slavers and have dinner served by slaves at someone's house. Work to pass laws. If laws aren't obeyed, perhaps offer to buy out slaves. If money doesn't work as a last resort, pull out the pitchforks. I'm not up for the unaliving, but i'll stick one in a slavers ass, and let them sit on it for a while.

The argument has always been something like, "If we (the pols and authorities), don't stand up for the people and defend freedom and the rule of law, Constitution, etc., then the people will come at us with pitchforks, etc.. " Well, the pols in both parties no longer fear or respect us peasants, so I really don't see any other alternatives for us, than our pitchforks and guns, figureatively, if boycotts and strikes don't work, since they sure as hell don't care about protests, at least as long as those protests are not directly outside their homes, 24/7. Money and physical force against them and their donors, are the only things that they are scared of having used against them... Both parties are sold out to the pretty much the same donors of the donor class...

19 hours ago, V.3 said:

. . . Hitler committed crimes before those atrocities that should have been enforced and justice should have been served before he got out of hand. Indeed laws and justice need to be enforced physically, with weapons if need be. And when Hitler's country allowed the atrocities, the world should step in with force -- weapons if all else fails.

this Prez committed crimes that should have already been brought to justice, force-ably if need be . . .

Cap'n, you keep using "should" in your rebuttal, which, for me , makes your argument academic. Step outside your ivory tower and put on some sunglasses because the light that you are going toward is blinding you to How the World Really Is.

What people should do is very different from what people do, will do, or want to do. All people should eat a "balanced diet" of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, proteins, and chocolate chip cookies . . . okay, maybe not that last one. But do they?

All people should drive with their hands at "ten and two," not "gun it" at a yellow light, and keep one car length for every 10 mph behind the car in front of them*. But do they?

All people should "do unto others." But do they?

Say you ". . . TOGETHER thing is the key. we can accomplish anything together . . . we have the power." Meanwhile on Red Planet MAGA, your polar opposite 3.V ("Come over to The Dark Side") is saying the same thing to RPM citizens. So the battle is a numbers game. Can more of "us" band together than more of "them" band together?

21 hours ago, V.3 said:

". . . as a last resort, pull out the pitchforks . . ."

Way I see it, We might have more pitchforks. But They own the pitchfork plants and have bigger, better, and heavier pitchforks.

"What is it the thing that ordinary Americans can do to prevent authoritarianism?"
"Americans have to be engaged"

* Unless the car ahead of you has a "T-R-U-M-P 2028" bumper sticker. Then you zoom in 'n ride up on the driver's MAGA @$$ while flipping the bird and making faces at the mofo.

Much as I agree with the rest of your comment, mac, I wouldn't recommend inciting road rage with an obvious MAGA type, like your asteriked comment suggests, unless you have a firearm in your vehicle, and are prepared to use it in a shootout with said MAGA motorist. Because nowadays you just have to assume that everyone out on the roads and streets is armed and willing and ready to use said firearms in a road rage conflict..

Seein' as how you're "on the front lines" in "The Heartland" and hip-deep in MAGAmaniacs, BD, I shall heed your sound advice.

FYI and for future reference, my tongue is generally firmly in my cheek when I compose my nBP posts. V.3 earlier addressed you and I as "warriors." I don't know about you; but in my case, the prefix "keyboard" must be applied. Because in real life, I'm about as warlike as Winnie the Pooh.

. . . and these days Pooh Bear seems to have the edge on me in that department.