BobDylan

Agreed. I do think the last election was rigged, electronically, by Musk, using computer and satellite technology, and the Dems, same as when Gore laid down and let W. steal the 2000 election, with the help of the SC, just let them get away with it unchallenged. Because they didn't want to get lumped in with THE LYIN' KING and MAGA about disputing election results, etc.. So here we are, with THE LYIN' KING ready to rig or steal the next election, no matter how many voters turn out and vote blue..

I agree. Dissing the progressives didn't cause them to vote for THE LYIN' KING, but it did tamp down enthusiasm for Kamala. When, if ever, will the Dem Party's leadership decide to run candidates and support policies that actually inspire voters to want to vote for them, or actually earn their votes, instead of just continually running on the premise of voting for the lesser evil, or simply running on how bad the other party is? As Dylan said so many years ago, ironicly, The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind....

Replying to both mac and V.3, I agree with all that's been said. Call me a cynic or a pessimist, but I knew even before THE LYIN' KING came on the scene, that many people were assholes, in essence, as far as bigotry, sadism, bullies, etc.., so I wasn't that surprised that he got elected twice and has been so popular with so many. Which is why I have always not liked most people, just my friends, and mostly just tried to tolerate and shun all the assholes that are out there. They will always be there, and few if any of them, will ever change and become truly nice, generous, and honest caring people. So don't have illusions that our country is going to drastically change, even after THE LYIN' KING is gone. All that will happen, is that his followers will slink back into the shadows, retaining all their prejudices, grievances, etc., and quietly wait for the next chance to grab power thru another demagogue. And after seeing how successful THE LYIN' KING was doing that, have no doubt there will be another Repub candidate that will come along, hopefully after I'm dead, that will mine the same veins as THE LYIN' KING did in the population...

I agree with both of those, and election reform should include Ranked Choice voting, which would eliminate the two party stranglehold, but the major parties would never allow it..

Very honest and rational on your part, Rob... Also quite humble...

No Rob, I haven't. But I have read some of the writings of Smedley Butler, the retired general who exposed the racket of war, and how he was a hitman for corporate America and the military industrial complex, against the Third World countries the US preyed on. I suppose the book you mentioned it similar to that.

If Nader had won in 2000, I'm certain we would at least not have had the Iraq War or the war in Afghanistan, both of which were costly in money, lives, and with soldiers suffering permanent PTSD and brain injuries. Those things in themselves, count for more than "not getting much done".... And our national deficit would also be much smaller. We also would have gotten something better than the ACA...

True mac, I forgot sports, which for most Americans, are the opiate of the masses, along with religion. Sports are a religion for some. It does unify them, in a tribal fashion, same as religion, and distracts them from the class war..

Well said, Edward. Thanks for joining us and posting this.. Without the arts these days, all we would have for content in the public arena, besides social media, would be advertising and political propaganda, neither of which are good sources for people to use for reflection on their experience and observations, much less any sort of moral or ethical guidance. Of course, there is also religion and the news media, but don't get me started on all the faults of those institutions these days....

After taking a much needed complete break from dating sites for several months, I have recently started to dabble in occasionally using Match, but only as an unpaid member. And when I have made the rare connection that is allowed on there for non paying members, it has become impossible to tell which profiles are the usual romance scammer and which are probably Chat bots, because they both use the same sort of conversational patterns and tactics for trying to keep you engaged, even when there is never any prospect of actually meeting them in person or even doing a video or live voice phone chat.. Brave New World, here we are, already....

And it's also telling that America currently has a higher % of its inhabitants locked up, than did Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union in its gulag days... But you can blame all that false belief by most Americans, in our country being superior in all those categories, to the corporate media's propaganda, as well as our degraded public education systems, both of which have long preached the myth of American exceptionalism...

As for being open in public about my political beliefs, I recently bought a ballcap that says Keep Immigrants Deport Racists, and frankly I'm not afraid to wear it anywhere, even in my suburb, because if people have a problem with it, they pretty much would have to do it to my face and confront me directly, since all the public places that I park my car, all seem to have cameras these days in the lots, so anyone who connected my hat with my car, would leave video evidence for me to take to the cops for pressing charges for vandalism and also referring it to their insurance company.

I also wanted to say, that I used to be active on reddit, and just like what you said, mac, about Yahoo's forums, there was so much constant posting and argument about the more trivial stuff of life on there, that like you, I was almost dumbfounded by the lack of intellect and seriousness among most folks on there. I know that reddit probably trends younger than this site, but it seemed like everyone was allergic to commenting seriously about anything, and instead it was all about who could post the best snark or be the top ridiculer of anyone who posted anything serious or vulnerable about themselves. In other words, online verbal dodgeball between middle schoolers...

Mac and V., I've really enjoyed reading the dialogue between you two. Two people who are both very bright, knowledgeable, and brutally honest with others. All rare traits in this Kardashian/Idiocracy world, or at least country, that we live in. I fully agree, this site deserves much more robust and wider participation from its members and visitors, but I don't have a clue how to make that happen or encourage more of it. Maybe most of us on the lefty end are feeling just too demoralized, stressed, and depressed to participate in discussions here, who knows? But I agree with both of you on your points made in your comments above. I don't feel either of you is more right than the other in the debate over human flaws, consistency and hypocrisy. For what it's worth, mac, I probably only meet about half of your four standards about morality. I do care about animals, but will still continue to be a carnivore, who supports animals being treated well while they are living as pets, in shelters, zoos, or in the wild. I will gladly pay higher taxes, as long as it benefits all of society, not just me and my age group, and also not just white people, the rich, or corporations. I am an Agnostic, so I guess Christian hypocrisy doesn't apply to me. Lastly, even tho I will likely be dead before the 💩 really hits the fan with climate change, I do care about the world left to younger people after I'm gone, and even tho I still drive a gas powered Ford Fusion, I would gladly ride a bicycle some of my travels, if I lived in a climate warm enough to do it most of the year, or would drive an electric vehicle, if I lived in a home that would allow me to plug it in. But I don't live in such a place, and my condo apt, fits my needs best for housing, as well as being affordable. I suppose that my next car will at least be a hybrid, if I can find a late model used one in a couple years or so. So judge me as you will, mac, but I honestly think I am trying and doing better at it than most.

I'll simply add a quote from someone whose name I can't remember, to your two man dialogue or debate. "If most Americans cared half as much about politics as they do about the Super Bowl, we would have already elected Ralph Nader twice"... Wanted to mention that after the references to Nader...