BobDylan

Agreed. I do think the last election was rigged, electronically, by Musk, using computer and satellite technology, and the Dems, same as when Gore laid down and let W. steal the 2000 election, with the help of the SC, just let them get away with it unchallenged. Because they didn't want to get lumped in with THE LYIN' KING and MAGA about disputing election results, etc.. So here we are, with THE LYIN' KING ready to rig or steal the next election, no matter how many voters turn out and vote blue..

Not all white men are assholes, but it sure looks like most of the assholes, as in antisocial behavior, are white men....

I agree. Dissing the progressives didn't cause them to vote for THE LYIN' KING, but it did tamp down enthusiasm for Kamala. When, if ever, will the Dem Party's leadership decide to run candidates and support policies that actually inspire voters to want to vote for them, or actually earn their votes, instead of just continually running on the premise of voting for the lesser evil, or simply running on how bad the other party is? As Dylan said so many years ago, ironicly, The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind....

Totally agree mac, great post. And thanks for including the link to the essay by Trent. I read it and shared it to my FB page.. And I really like how Trent not only exposes the spinelessness of the congressional Dems towards THE LYIN' KING, but also their longtime collusion and agreement with the Repub Party for so long, behind the scenes on foreign policy, war, economic policy, civil liberties, even climate change. All areas where the diffs between the party are not really on policy, but on the pace of executing them, as well as the tactics and strategies for implementing them, not on whether the policies are right, moral, or fair, in the first place..

Replying to both mac and V.3, I agree with all that's been said. Call me a cynic or a pessimist, but I knew even before THE LYIN' KING came on the scene, that many people were assholes, in essence, as far as bigotry, sadism, bullies, etc.., so I wasn't that surprised that he got elected twice and has been so popular with so many. Which is why I have always not liked most people, just my friends, and mostly just tried to tolerate and shun all the assholes that are out there. They will always be there, and few if any of them, will ever change and become truly nice, generous, and honest caring people. So don't have illusions that our country is going to drastically change, even after THE LYIN' KING is gone. All that will happen, is that his followers will slink back into the shadows, retaining all their prejudices, grievances, etc., and quietly wait for the next chance to grab power thru another demagogue. And after seeing how successful THE LYIN' KING was doing that, have no doubt there will be another Repub candidate that will come along, hopefully after I'm dead, that will mine the same veins as THE LYIN' KING did in the population...

I agree with both of those, and election reform should include Ranked Choice voting, which would eliminate the two party stranglehold, but the major parties would never allow it..

In general elections, I never vote in a way that risks losing to the Repubs, and I also never encourage fellow progressives to vote third party, if they live in a state where doing so is going to make a diff in the results, as far as whether the Dem candidate loses to a Repub. It's called strategic voting or voting lesser evil, whichever you choose to label it, in general elections. It doesn't take much effort to keep up on the polling and know when the race between a Dem and a Repub is going to be close or not, and thus whether or not it's safe to vote third party in such a race... And if other voters choose to ignore that, not keep up on how close a race they are voting in is projected to be, or choose to vote third party in a general election, regardless of how it may affect the result between a Dem and a Repub, that's on them, not me, and I won't be shamed about it by anybody, esp. Dem Party loyalists who may refuse to recognize or admit any faults in their party's leaders or candidates... and to be clear, I'm not saying that anybody in this discussion is guilty of that, but I do get sick of that in general, on internet forums and social media..

Welcome to the camp, as The Who said in Tommy, Corey, and thanks for participating in the forums. I'm glad to see another lefty like me, esp. someone younger like you.

Very honest and rational on your part, Rob... Also quite humble...

No Rob, I haven't. But I have read some of the writings of Smedley Butler, the retired general who exposed the racket of war, and how he was a hitman for corporate America and the military industrial complex, against the Third World countries the US preyed on. I suppose the book you mentioned it similar to that. I also have noticed the hypocrisy, irony, and outright lying of the THE LYIN' KING regime about saving Iran with democracy, as well as intervening there to protect the rights of the protestors there, while THE LYIN' KING destroys democracy here and supports his ICE goons executing peaceful protestors here. It's all so thick and palpable you can cut it with a knife... Of course, anybody nuking any other country these days, is going to harm everyone on the planet, with the toxic environmental effects and the radiation poisoning happening globally over time from it, much less the chain reaction it would set off of other countries with nukes using theirs or retaliating with nukes, if they have them at all..

If Nader had won in 2000, I'm certain we would at least not have had the Iraq War or the war in Afghanistan, both of which were costly in money, lives, and with soldiers suffering permanent PTSD and brain injuries. Those things in themselves, count for more than "not getting much done".... And our national deficit would also be much smaller. We also would have gotten something better than the ACA...

True mac, I forgot sports, which for most Americans, are the opiate of the masses, along with religion. Sports are a religion for some. It does unify them, in a tribal fashion, same as religion, and distracts them from the class war..

Well said, Edward. Thanks for joining us and posting this.. Without the arts these days, all we would have for content in the public arena, besides social media, would be advertising and political propaganda, neither of which are good sources for people to use for reflection on their experience and observations, much less any sort of moral or ethical guidance. Of course, there is also religion and the news media, but don't get me started on all the faults of those institutions these days....

I guess we are the same age, Lindy. No wonder we feel a lot the same about ourselves and the world, and see many things the same way. As for V.'s link on the neuroscience, it boils down to our side being more nuanced, deeper, and complex thinkers, compared to the right... Not sure if that's a blessing or a curse, these days...at least for the individual.

Sorry it went so badly for you. I guess you have much more patience and tolerance than I do. Also, I'm probably a lot older than you, and at least in my case, the older I get, the easier it is for me to cut out or cut off people who are toxic or simply frustrating to me, be they family or friends. Maybe it's part of having gotten conditioned to being fairly alone or on my own, or maybe it's because I've become fairly fatalistic, about how much hope there is to have about the future, or about how the rest of my life is going to go. Either way, I just no longer choose to use my remaining time or energy on people like your cousin, or anybody who doesn't get me, accept me as I am, respect me, or choose to live in reality, rather than their own delusions or fantasies of what is going on. As always, I'm glad you're here, and that you share your experiences and feelings with us.

I don't have any MAGA relatives, much less any friends of that cult, but if I did, I wouldn't even bother wasting my time, energy or breath with them. I choose not to voluntarily engage in personal interaction with people who refuse to deal in reality, rather than lies and fantasy...

After taking a much needed complete break from dating sites for several months, I have recently started to dabble in occasionally using Match, but only as an unpaid member. And when I have made the rare connection that is allowed on there for non paying members, it has become impossible to tell which profiles are the usual romance scammer and which are probably Chat bots, because they both use the same sort of conversational patterns and tactics for trying to keep you engaged, even when there is never any prospect of actually meeting them in person or even doing a video or live voice phone chat.. Brave New World, here we are, already....

And it's also telling that America currently has a higher % of its inhabitants locked up, than did Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union in its gulag days... But you can blame all that false belief by most Americans, in our country being superior in all those categories, to the corporate media's propaganda, as well as our degraded public education systems, both of which have long preached the myth of American exceptionalism...

As for being open in public about my political beliefs, I recently bought a ballcap that says Keep Immigrants Deport Racists, and frankly I'm not afraid to wear it anywhere, even in my suburb, because if people have a problem with it, they pretty much would have to do it to my face and confront me directly, since all the public places that I park my car, all seem to have cameras these days in the lots, so anyone who connected my hat with my car, would leave video evidence for me to take to the cops for pressing charges for vandalism and also referring it to their insurance company.

I read some of the quoted passages from the linked article, but it was all stuff I or others I know had experienced. It could be worse, as I live in the state's largest city, the biggest blue dot, and I have the local Unitarian church, which is all libs, even tho most of them are classist, cliquish and snobby as hell. But at least I have that oasis of sanity, truth, honesty, and safety while living in a red state and in THE LYIN' KING's America.. I pity those living in worse places in America, or who don't have a safe or supportive church or social group they can be themselves in and find like-minded support.. As for the Trumpers, I really lost any pity for them long ago. Instead, I feel nothing but anger and hatred for them. But the diff between me and them is, I'm not trying to kill, beat up, or take away their rights, even if our side regains political power, tempting as it might be to disqualify them from ever holding political office or being able to vote again, because replacing one form of fascism for another is not the way to go. But I will gladly fight or even kill them, if necessary, in self defense once they come after me to attack or kill me. As for the south, I also see it as Ground Zero, and a region I have no use for nor any desire to ever visit again. It may as well be a hostile foreign country, as far as I'm concerned.. As to you living as a bicoastal progressive, you might enjoy the tongue in cheek humor of my fav local original music band, Brother Trucker. They play Americana, or what some might call roots rock or alt country. Anyway, they named one of their older albums The Flyover, in reference to how all the bicoastal Americans they encountered in their tours outside the midwest, referred to my region of the country, as "Flyover Land"... Another variation of that self reference to us living in flyover land, is another Iowa band of white musicians, whose name escapes me, that referred to their unique Iowa form of hip hop music as "Hick- hop".... Living in the most red suburb of my metro area, I long ago gave up on having bumper stickers on my car, esp. after THE LYIN' KING was first elected, since I don't want to deal with the inevitable vandalism it would bring, along with higher car insurance premiums, not because I would be afraid of violence against me. People on the right, where I live, are too chicken💩 to directly attack a man over politics, at least so far. Instead, they might say something to your face or insult you, or talk 💩 about you behind your back later, but are too chicken💩 to actually throw down against you or challenge you to a physical fight. It is an open carry state, but so far nobody is trying to go Old West on libs over their MAGA stands..

I also wanted to say, that I used to be active on reddit, and just like what you said, mac, about Yahoo's forums, there was so much constant posting and argument about the more trivial stuff of life on there, that like you, I was almost dumbfounded by the lack of intellect and seriousness among most folks on there. I know that reddit probably trends younger than this site, but it seemed like everyone was allergic to commenting seriously about anything, and instead it was all about who could post the best snark or be the top ridiculer of anyone who posted anything serious or vulnerable about themselves. In other words, online verbal dodgeball between middle schoolers...

Mac and V., I've really enjoyed reading the dialogue between you two. Two people who are both very bright, knowledgeable, and brutally honest with others. All rare traits in this Kardashian/Idiocracy world, or at least country, that we live in. I fully agree, this site deserves much more robust and wider participation from its members and visitors, but I don't have a clue how to make that happen or encourage more of it. Maybe most of us on the lefty end are feeling just too demoralized, stressed, and depressed to participate in discussions here, who knows? But I agree with both of you on your points made in your comments above. I don't feel either of you is more right than the other in the debate over human flaws, consistency and hypocrisy. For what it's worth, mac, I probably only meet about half of your four standards about morality. I do care about animals, but will still continue to be a carnivore, who supports animals being treated well while they are living as pets, in shelters, zoos, or in the wild. I will gladly pay higher taxes, as long as it benefits all of society, not just me and my age group, and also not just white people, the rich, or corporations. I am an Agnostic, so I guess Christian hypocrisy doesn't apply to me. Lastly, even tho I will likely be dead before the 💩 really hits the fan with climate change, I do care about the world left to younger people after I'm gone, and even tho I still drive a gas powered Ford Fusion, I would gladly ride a bicycle some of my travels, if I lived in a climate warm enough to do it most of the year, or would drive an electric vehicle, if I lived in a home that would allow me to plug it in. But I don't live in such a place, and my condo apt, fits my needs best for housing, as well as being affordable. I suppose that my next car will at least be a hybrid, if I can find a late model used one in a couple years or so. So judge me as you will, mac, but I honestly think I am trying and doing better at it than most.

I agree with this analysis, moral judgement has replaced all norms of others having inalienable, permanent or universal human rights. Instead most of us now seem to feel that the rights and value of others depends solely on their membership of either our in group or the out group. Which makes for a pretty unstable, volatile Lord Of The Flies type of society. Not something to desire or want to live in.. And such a society is certain to not usually be peaceful..

I'll simply add a quote from someone whose name I can't remember, to your two man dialogue or debate. "If most Americans cared half as much about politics as they do about the Super Bowl, we would have already elected Ralph Nader twice"... Wanted to mention that after the references to Nader...

I agree with your reasoning, it may well be just one of many efforts to shut down exposure of the Epstein files.. In our present times, you can't be too paranoid, when it comes to the THE LYIN' KING regime..