BobDylan

I agree. Dissing the progressives didn't cause them to vote for THE LYIN' KING, but it did tamp down enthusiasm for Kamala. When, if ever, will the Dem Party's leadership decide to run candidates and support policies that actually inspire voters to want to vote for them, or actually earn their votes, instead of just continually running on the premise of voting for the lesser evil, or simply running on how bad the other party is? As Dylan said so many years ago, ironicly, The answer my friend, is blowing in the wind....

Totally agree mac, great post. And thanks for including the link to the essay by Trent. I read it and shared it to my FB page.. And I really like how Trent not only exposes the spinelessness of the congressional Dems towards THE LYIN' KING, but also their longtime collusion and agreement with the Repub Party for so long, behind the scenes on foreign policy, war, economic policy, civil liberties, even climate change. All areas where the diffs between the party are not really on policy, but on the pace of executing them, as well as the tactics and strategies for implementing them, not on whether the policies are right, moral, or fair, in the first place..

Reading stuff like this about Musk's DOGE staffers, kind of makes me feel glad that Big Balls got the 💩 beat out of him in DC....

No 💩, but we've had this since before THE LYIN' KING even ran the first time..

Replying to both mac and V.3, I agree with all that's been said. Call me a cynic or a pessimist, but I knew even before THE LYIN' KING came on the scene, that many people were assholes, in essence, as far as bigotry, sadism, bullies, etc.., so I wasn't that surprised that he got elected twice and has been so popular with so many. Which is why I have always not liked most people, just my friends, and mostly just tried to tolerate and shun all the assholes that are out there. They will always be there, and few if any of them, will ever change and become truly nice, generous, and honest caring people. So don't have illusions that our country is going to drastically change, even after THE LYIN' KING is gone. All that will happen, is that his followers will slink back into the shadows, retaining all their prejudices, grievances, etc., and quietly wait for the next chance to grab power thru another demagogue. And after seeing how successful THE LYIN' KING was doing that, have no doubt there will be another Repub candidate that will come along, hopefully after I'm dead, that will mine the same veins as THE LYIN' KING did in the population...

I agree with both of those, and election reform should include Ranked Choice voting, which would eliminate the two party stranglehold, but the major parties would never allow it..

In general elections, I never vote in a way that risks losing to the Repubs, and I also never encourage fellow progressives to vote third party, if they live in a state where doing so is going to make a diff in the results, as far as whether the Dem candidate loses to a Repub. It's called strategic voting or voting lesser evil, whichever you choose to label it, in general elections. It doesn't take much effort to keep up on the polling and know when the race between a Dem and a Repub is going to be close or not, and thus whether or not it's safe to vote third party in such a race... And if other voters choose to ignore that, not keep up on how close a race they are voting in is projected to be, or choose to vote third party in a general election, regardless of how it may affect the result between a Dem and a Repub, that's on them, not me, and I won't be shamed about it by anybody, esp. Dem Party loyalists who may refuse to recognize or admit any faults in their party's leaders or candidates... and to be clear, I'm not saying that anybody in this discussion is guilty of that, but I do get sick of that in general, on internet forums and social media..

Welcome to the camp, as The Who said in Tommy, Corey, and thanks for participating in the forums. I'm glad to see another lefty like me, esp. someone younger like you.

Very honest and rational on your part, Rob... Also quite humble...

No Rob, I haven't. But I have read some of the writings of Smedley Butler, the retired general who exposed the racket of war, and how he was a hitman for corporate America and the military industrial complex, against the Third World countries the US preyed on. I suppose the book you mentioned it similar to that. I also have noticed the hypocrisy, irony, and outright lying of the THE LYIN' KING regime about saving Iran with democracy, as well as intervening there to protect the rights of the protestors there, while THE LYIN' KING destroys democracy here and supports his ICE goons executing peaceful protestors here. It's all so thick and palpable you can cut it with a knife... Of course, anybody nuking any other country these days, is going to harm everyone on the planet, with the toxic environmental effects and the radiation poisoning happening globally over time from it, much less the chain reaction it would set off of other countries with nukes using theirs or retaliating with nukes, if they have them at all..

I would hate it if this site became FB lite... I do agree with your assessment of why the site is so dead, as far as participation and total membership numbers. It's because the vast majority of people who visit the site, are looking for local dating options from the LHC, and once they see that it's not the case for them, or anybody on here so far, they almost always just leave, rather than stay and try to participate in the forums here and become part of an online community. In fact, I bet that most people only even join as members, because it's needed to be able to complete a dating profile for the LHC and/or become able to view dating profiles of other members. If that hurdle wasn't required, I bet we'd see way fewer site visitors even bothering to become members, once they'd visited and browsed the site.

Aw shucks, now you're really embarrassing me, mac. It's rare that a man makes me blush, it's almost always women, who are able to do that easily to me, lol.... Good thing I'm a man so secure in my masculinity, that I can wear pink, lol, tho I do that rarely....

I like the way you think here on this, Rob, and even more how well you said it.. I have zero desire to engage with right wingers or MAGA on this site... I used to spar with them on reddit, until I got banned from there, and that was enough to last me a lifetime...

I must admit mac, you are a deeper thinker than me, and have a keener insight to the whole picture on this dilemma....

And that is exactly the strategy and argument the Dem Party uses to first use and then ignore their progressive voters each election cycle. Give us your unearned votes, your volunteering, and even some campaign cash, so that after the election, we can duly ignore you and your desired policy requests, until the next election comes around. And you wonder why a third of eligible voters have simply tuned out and checked out of politics in America, becoming our largest voting bloc, the non voters.... I'm not saying I'm like them, as I always vote each time, even if it's only against someone or for a lesser evil candidate, but in a presidential election, when I know I'm living in a non swing state, and my vote will not affect the outcome, I will gladly vote for a third party candidate, even if it's just going to be a protest vote or a vote to help that party achieve party status for the next election cycle, as the Greens have done a few times in my state, by getting the threshold % of the vote.

Every projection is a confession, with THE LYIN' KING...

Don't blame the Nader voters for W. becoming president. He was appointed by the SC, after they stopped the election recount in FL, and that is well known, that Gore would have won if the recount had continued. So there... I'm so tired of the vote shaming of third party voters and the continued myth-spreading about the 2000 election and Nader being blamed for W.'s appointment by the SC... Way past time for Dem Party supporters and loyalists to give up that 💩, and admit the corruption and faults within their party...

I agree with you completely about Newsom being a corporate centrist Dem, who will always favor the rich and corporations over the masses, and of course I would vote for him over Vance, or any Repub prez candidate. I was aware of his support of Prop 50, but that is mere partisanship, not a position with our side in the class war. Even tho it's so clear that this country needs democratic socialism to solve our structural problems and restore our middle class, as well as get the working class to stop being drawn to fascism, you can always bet your ass that the Dem Party's leaders will never allow that to happen, no matter what most voters may want or most Dem Party supporters would want..

I don't really see Newsom as a fighter, just someone who's good at trolling THE LYIN' KING and saying the right things at times, and I sure as hell don't trust him to be president. But on the rest of your comment, I agree 100%. Most Americans, unfortunately, lost their revolutionary spirit at least a few generations ago... I don't see us ever voting our way out of the structural problems our system has, and I also have zero confidence the Repubs will allow free and fair elections in Nov.. A civil war is likely coming, as the only way we resolve the current divide. People had best be prepared for violence, whether they participate in it or not..

If Nader had won in 2000, I'm certain we would at least not have had the Iraq War or the war in Afghanistan, both of which were costly in money, lives, and with soldiers suffering permanent PTSD and brain injuries. Those things in themselves, count for more than "not getting much done".... And our national deficit would also be much smaller. We also would have gotten something better than the ACA...

Well said. Third parties can win, despite the opposition of the major parties and the corporate media, but only if the majority of eligible voters are willing to trust each other enough, research the third parties, instead of just accepting the propaganda and conventional wisdom, etc., of those self-serving groups. There is nothing in the law or election rules to prevent tens of millions of Americans electing third party candidates from winning fed elections. So I agree, that the majority of voters, who stay locked within the duopoly, get the fed govt. they deserve. I long ago got fed up with both major parties at the fed level, once they both had become sold out to corporate donors beginning in the early 90s. Since then, I have only voted for major party candidates in fed elections as a lesser evil, after voting for my real hopes and candidates that might actually represent me, in primaries. But most voters won't even bother to get informed and participate in primaries, so they only vote in general elections, after all the major party candidates are already pre-selected by the corporate donor class, not the voters.. If you stay within just voting for the major parties in general elections, you will be limited to only voting on culture war issues and identity politics, since those are the only things the major parties really differ on much these days. Those things do matter, but economic issues, foreign policy, war, civil liberties, and climate change also matter, even more than culture war stuff.

I don't blame you. Everything on the net is permanent, and out of your control once it's posted..

Heaven forbid the Dems ever act like they needed to earn anyone's votes, or show any real fight against the Repubs, instead of their usual arrogant mode of just assuming people will vote for them as the default choice of not being THE LYIN' KING or the Repubs. It doesn't work anymore, because people have caught onto their con, not just THE LYIN' KING's con... As the old saying goes, you can't beat something with nothing... I also thought it was useless and bull💩 for the Dems to just sit there, almost all the time, and silently watch THE LYIN' KING looking sad or concerned, instead of vocally confronting him. On camera, it looked weak and pathetic. Also, what was the point of having all the Erpstein survivors there, and not using them to actively confront THE LYIN' KING, and dare him to have them thrown out of the room? I know you can never shame the Repubs or THE LYIN' KING effectively, but it would have been very powerful for the survivors to have confronted him and shouted him down, and then been thrown out in front of the nation on camera. Finally, why the hell were the Dems not confronting THE LYIN' KING, on his Cadet Bone Spurs draft dodging, when he spent so much of the time hypocritically showing off law enforcement and military heroes? Same with shouting him down about his pardoning of J6rs after they beat up the Capital Police cops then? You need to show people some strong confronting of his hypocrisy, to his 🍆>🐱ing face on camera, if you want to look strong and get the respect of working class people, as all they respect is strength and courage, not moral superiority or seeming smarter than your opposition..

Agreed, I think we need more promotion, on a regular basis, of the new members introducing themselves, as well as encouraging more long-tenured members to introduce themselves, if they haven't done so yet..

True mac, I forgot sports, which for most Americans, are the opiate of the masses, along with religion. Sports are a religion for some. It does unify them, in a tribal fashion, same as religion, and distracts them from the class war..