it pains me to have to post about something that is established science, that we are feeling and experiencing, like it is breaking news -- but at the same time as this pig president is gutting climate regulations the facts are... (check the spike the past 3 years)

speaking of experiencing
here in AZ, we skipped winter all-together
it's now spring

"but have you seen the DOW?"

and

"we're freezing in the East!"

(Ahem!) Bookmark this topic and refer to it the next time that you feel the urge to consult AI about Life, Death, and The Meaning of It All, V.3.

The Growing Environmental Impact of AI Data Centers

How AI and Data Centers Impact Climate Change

6 hours ago, macphysto said:

(Ahem!) Bookmark this topic and refer to it the next time that you feel the urge to consult AI about Life, Death, and The Meaning of It All, V.3.

The Growing Environmental Impact of AI Data Centers

How AI and Data Centers Impact Climate Change

and you mean next time i consult a.i. on how to solve the energy/climate crisis, poverty, and corruption, etc.?
including how to properly regulate and responsibly use a.i so as to not waste energy, replace human creativity, etc.?

because, frankly, Mac, if it wasn't for cynics and their hands-off, no-vote approach we might not be in this current mess
or, at, least not as waist deep in it as we are right now

• the invention of fire enabled cooking vegetable soup or the flesh of sentient life forms

• the invention of the wheel can be used to build an ambulance and fire-truck, or a tank

• the invention of the car was the first harmful use of oil leading to pollution and energy waste

• the gun empowered European settlers to repel British tyrants from America, and the American Indians from their homeland

• the internet can be used to connect cultures around the world, or to connect religious and political fanatics to themselves in closed bubbles of ignorance

it's not about how much energy it takes to run artificial intelligence
it's about not wasting energy by misusing artificial intelligence
a.i. helped me build this site that you are using to communicate your opinions to the world
and, btw, i know you object to being told what to do
but kudos for you bravely TELLING ME AND THE WORLD WHAT NOT TO DO
and i suggest you be more specific.
a.i. put to proper use will probably save your life one day
or extend it
and i agree we should not waste energy misusing it to do the thinking for children
to replace relationships and human creativity

the devil is in the details
i suggest that when you tell other people what to do and what not to do
be specific
if you were, i'd probably, mostly agree with you

aim your stones

also, Mac, since i should be aiming my stones...

1. the guy who enacted climate change regulations and the guy who joined the international climate accord
   are guys you didn't vote for

2. the guy who put an end to both
   is the guy you didn't vote against

and here's the thing...
if people like me had voted for Ralph Nader or a third party
in a TWO party system
we wouldn't even have had #1
and the Spring i'm experiencing in my Arizona winter
might already be a summer

think it through, my friend

Your rebuttal is good, though some of your arguments are presumptive . . .

"a.i. put to proper use will probably save your life one day or extend it"

"if people like me had voted for Ralph Nader or a third party in a TWO party system we wouldn't even have had #1"

"Probably." You got crystal balls or sumpin'?

Yeah, it is a fait accompli that America will always have a two-party system, so why bother try to change it? So silly and a waste of time, right?

Ditto regarding AI being destructive to the environment and exacerbating climate change. Hey, Mankind has already trashed the planet because of cars and, in turn, wheels on cars. So what if AI is "another nail in the coffin" of planet Earth? In for a penny, in for a pound, right? And three cheers for the invention of the gun! Makes killing people soooo much quicker and easier! The world is overpopulated anyway, right?

I didn't produce the news reports that I linked to, Planet Lord. Neither did I create the YouTube clip that I shared. Your argument is not just with me, "my friend." Plead your case to the organizations, scientists, and thousands -- if not millions -- of people unwilling to wholeheartedly and unquestioningly embrace AI. Good luck!

Pssst! Mother Nature might argue with you about "the invention of fire." She did that. Man only learned how to make it himself.

I'll simply add a quote from someone whose name I can't remember, to your two man dialogue or debate. "If most Americans cared half as much about politics as they do about the Super Bowl, we would have already elected Ralph Nader twice"... Wanted to mention that after the references to Nader...

6 hours ago, BobDylan said:

"If most Americans cared half as much about politics as they do about the Super Bowl, we would have already elected Ralph Nader twice"

unfortunately, that is not true. Americans of both parties say they vote the way they do because they care about America and politics. If all the progressive idealists in the Dem Party voted Nader he still wouldn't have been elected because we all have mixed emotions shaped by the corporate media. There is only one path -- incremental change. There's no truth pill -- progressive lever that can be pulled.

11 hours ago, macphysto said:

...America will always have a two-party system, so why bother try to change it? So silly and a waste of time, right? Ditto regarding...

i believe your thrust is what they call a "strawman" argument, since the straw/words are of your construction, not mine. I believe the 2-Party system can and MUST be changed. It begins by electing Obamas and forcing them to go further. It will never change all at once (and a.i. is a viable tool towards that goal, if we can elect someone ready and willing to drastically regulate it, in cooperation with the rest of the world.)

your approach, is similar to Nancy Reagan's "just say no" to drugs policy, or worse. Melania's "Be Best" campaign. (sorry for the company. It's an oversimplification. but you get the idea).

(and speaking of mis-categorizations. i resent the "Planet Lord" label. Though we share the know-it-all branding, i acknowledge i am only Captain of my own ship. And only one of us admits that he CAN, MUST, and is WILLING to change. But i will resist any kind of "Mac-Lord" labeling. And we should stay on topic.)

1 hour ago, V.3 said:

. . . (and speaking of mis-categorizations. i resent the "Planet Lord" label. Though we share the know-it-all branding, i acknowledge i am only Captain of my own ship. And only one of us admits that he CAN, MUST, and is WILLING to change. But i will resist any kind of "Mac-Lord" labeling . . .

Actually, I kinda like "Mac-Lord." I suspect that it would definitely improve my credit rating and FICO score.

Hey Man, you (virtually) created a "planet," not a starship. Don't be so humble.

2 hours ago, V.3 said:

. . . And we should stay on topic.

That's rich! You veer off the main topic to "throw stones" at my principles and voting habits here instead of here, then you insist "we should stay on topic."

If I seem to be needling you about AI (and I am!), V.3, permit me to refresh your memory:

". . . BD, Scary, and MacP could do better. V3 could do better
and none of us are more superior than MAGA
we just behave better
but, for example, i buy products i know were made from slave wages. and i use a.i.
i could do better
i confess my sins -- and i will try to do better"

Still trying re AI, V.3? Doesn't seem like it to me.

Quoth Boxer Mike Tyson, "Everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth."

To riff on "Iron" Mike's statement, everybody has their ideals and moral code until their ideals and morals get in the way of their wants, pleasures, and fun:

• I love and care about animals. But dash it all, some of them are just so gosh-darned tasty!

• Sure, I want younger generations to have a better future and better lives. But don't ask ME to pay higher taxes to foot the bill for more affordable education.

• I'm a Christian and my heart truly bleeds for the poor, starving, and homeless. But locate shelters and affordable housing in my town? On ny street? NIMBY!

• I care about environmental pollution, climate change, and global warming! I really do! But I just have to ask ChatGPT, "When a tree falls in a forest and nobody is there . . . Does it make a sound?"

I'm not telling you what you should do, Man. I'm merely calling you out on what I perceive to be your hypoc . . . your inconsistency. We're all human beings, full of flaws, faults, and contradictions. I'm a glass house dweller myself, and the absolute last person to be casting stones at anyone.

But, you have a propensity to scold, lecture, and judge people and hold others to your particular standard of ideals and principles.

. . . which brings out de debbil in me and tempts me to chuck rocks at yo' windows, PL.

yes, i had our prior discussion in mind when i replied in this thread. i was aware and willing to discuss it further, i just hoped to do it elsewhere. (i'll move it. or copy it since i made an energy connection). Indeed we are only human, so i remind myself and encourage others to "be better." Maybe Melania's on to something. And if some people want a medal for working on it more than others, my reply is, "gold or silver." It's those people who make a difference in the world. Jesus, MLK, etc.. were flawed human beings, BUT THEY STILL PREACHED and i thank them for doing so.

the right uses that "hypocricy" tact to dismiss anyone who tries. for an admittedly, hyperbolic example, if Greta Thunberg didn't arrive on a bicycle to a U.N. meeting to convince world leaders to cut emissions she'd be ridiculed and dismissed. Again. i think you get the idea. Even if not, at least it again shifts this discussion back on topic.

1 hour ago, macphysto said:

Hey Man, you (virtually) created a "planet," not a starship. Don't be so humble.

for the moment, i only created a site. but i'm working on it. thank you.

1 hour ago, V.3 said:

for the moment, i only created a site. but i'm working on it. thank you.

You're welcome, and thank you for your patience and courtesy.

Pardon me (or don't) for detouring off the topic, but while we're on the subject . . .

I genuinely and immensely admire your skill, talent, and vision in designing newBluePlanet, V.3. I applaud your noble mission to provide a salon for liberals and progressives. I stand in awe of your valiant, artistic effort . . . which, alas, I don't think is suitably rewarded by nBP citizenry. I find the meagre participation in nBP forums annoying.

Every day I see "guests" -- sometimes many guests -- viewing forum topics, and that's all they do: view topics! They aren't joining in! They aren't contributing! WT . . ., citizens?!

If folks only have cell phones, I get it! If I had only a cell phone, I wouldn't participate either.

The only other social media forums that I frequent are Yahoo! comment "communities," which get a LOT of action! Even the most (to me) vapid Yahoo! articles generate hundreds, sometimes thousands of responses. Yahoo! serves up a report on the world's cutest puppies or Sydney Sweeney's cuter "puppies," and several hundred knuckleheads (who have entirely too much time on their hands) feel compelled to spout off and argue about that!

Meanwhile thought-provoking and important nBP topics stagnate like barren, dead planets in the cyberspace void.

Why, citizens? W-h-y?

Mac and V., I've really enjoyed reading the dialogue between you two. Two people who are both very bright, knowledgeable, and brutally honest with others. All rare traits in this Kardashian/Idiocracy world, or at least country, that we live in. I fully agree, this site deserves much more robust and wider participation from its members and visitors, but I don't have a clue how to make that happen or encourage more of it. Maybe most of us on the lefty end are feeling just too demoralized, stressed, and depressed to participate in discussions here, who knows? But I agree with both of you on your points made in your comments above. I don't feel either of you is more right than the other in the debate over human flaws, consistency and hypocrisy. For what it's worth, mac, I probably only meet about half of your four standards about morality. I do care about animals, but will still continue to be a carnivore, who supports animals being treated well while they are living as pets, in shelters, zoos, or in the wild. I will gladly pay higher taxes, as long as it benefits all of society, not just me and my age group, and also not just white people, the rich, or corporations. I am an Agnostic, so I guess Christian hypocrisy doesn't apply to me. Lastly, even tho I will likely be dead before the 💩 really hits the fan with climate change, I do care about the world left to younger people after I'm gone, and even tho I still drive a gas powered Ford Fusion, I would gladly ride a bicycle some of my travels, if I lived in a climate warm enough to do it most of the year, or would drive an electric vehicle, if I lived in a home that would allow me to plug it in. But I don't live in such a place, and my condo apt, fits my needs best for housing, as well as being affordable.

I suppose that my next car will at least be a hybrid, if I can find a late model used one in a couple years or so. So judge me as you will, mac, but I honestly think I am trying and doing better at it than most.

I also wanted to say, that I used to be active on reddit, and just like what you said, mac, about Yahoo's forums, there was so much constant posting and argument about the more trivial stuff of life on there, that like you, I was almost dumbfounded by the lack of intellect and seriousness among most folks on there. I know that reddit probably trends younger than this site, but it seemed like everyone was allergic to commenting seriously about anything, and instead it was all about who could post the best snark or be the top ridiculer of anyone who posted anything serious or vulnerable about themselves. In other words, online verbal dodgeball between middle schoolers...

19 minutes ago, macphysto said:

1 hour ago, V.3 said:

for the moment, i only created a site. but i'm working on it. thank you.

You're welcome, and thank you for your patience and courtesy.

Pardon me (or don't) for detouring off the topic, but while we're on the subject . . .

I genuinely and immensely admire your skill, talent, and vision in designing newBluePlanet, V.3. I applaud your noble mission to provide a salon for liberals and progressives. I stand in awe of your valiant, artistic effort . . . which, alas, I don't think is suitably rewarded by nBP citizenry. I find the meagre participation in nBP forums annoying.

Every day I see "guests" -- sometimes many guests -- viewing forum topics, and that's all they do: view topics! They aren't joining in! They aren't contributing! WT . . ., citizens?!

If folks only have cell phones, I get it! If I had only a cell phone, I wouldn't participate either.

The only other social media forums that I frequent are Yahoo! comment "communities," which get a LOT of action! Even the most (to me) vapid Yahoo! articles generate hundreds, sometimes thousands of responses. Yahoo! serves up a report on the world's cutest puppies or Sydney Sweeney's cuter "puppies," and several hundred knuckleheads (who have entirely too much time on their hands) feel compelled to spout off and argue about that!

Meanwhile thought-provoking and important nBP topics stagnate like barren, dead planets in the cyberspace void.

Why, citizens? W-h-y?

and indeed you are trying, Mac. You actually post more than i do. And, it is fair to say you wouldn't participate on a cell. I wouldn't either. I don't do anything on my cell. It's a phone to me.

The W-h-y? i accept. I may have overdone it with this site -- to organized, too many features, that only you may understand as much as i do.

i go through cycles. Right now i've been working on new songs -- that come to me in dreams. But soon i do plan on working on that "new.blue.planet" thread. And here's where it ties into the W-h-y?

regardless of the endeavor, people have to see, WHAT'S IN IT FOR ME? And, frankly, when they see a small group like us, you, BD, and Lindy, they might think, that's not enough activity, or those are good writer's and i'm not. Or, simply, what's the point? there's no way out of this mess. That's why i push back with my brand of naive optimism, and stress we don't have to be guiltless to suggest, even demand more from each other.

now. back to "what's in it for me?" and planet building (and as a result, forum building). My primary plan always was to build that new blue planet, as soon as i can concentrate on that. The operative Field Of Dreams expression is "if you build it, they will come." Not to just a political forum, or a single's service. To a vision of an idealistic world that offers humans something much, much better than we're getting now. That we CAN have. I'm confident it will be compelling...

34 minutes ago, BobDylan said:

... I honestly think I am trying and doing better at it than most.

i concur, BD. Even your participation here in itself is evidence that you are putting in the work. Thank you.

Thanks for the props about my participation and writing, V., but I really don't think that any of those you named, including you, are great writers, etc.. I just think it's more that all four of us have something to say, feel free about saying it, and are passionate about what we choose to write about. Which should be all someone needs, or should need, to participate in this forum. Because at least so far, this site has not become a platform for meanness, harassment, ridicule, etc., like Facebook, reddit, etc.. People so far, both on the forums and several others that I've messaged with privately, seem to nice, decent, caring people. I just wish they would come out of the shadows, or maybe their online wallflower mode, to engage and participate with us and build a community. I saw that happen, at least for a few years, on Agnostic.com when I first joined there, so I know it's possible. But I also know that human nature of most people, even those on the liberal side of the spectrum, are more interested in finding romantic local partners, than meeting new friends, even online, that might actually add something else enriching and nurturing to their emotional lives, even if only a sense of solidarity, belonging, and being understood..

My brother got a Master's degree in English, specializing in Fiction Writing, from Syracuse Univ.. And when I asked him why people become professional writers, he said it was not because they were great writers, but because they all have something to say. Interestingly, he realized after he graduated from there, that he needed another or better line of work than writing, so he went to law school, became a lawyer for several years, and then became a fed magistrate, a judge, following the same legal career path my father did. So whether it was talent or having something to say, I guess there's something in my genetics, when it comes to writing....

20 hours ago, BobDylan said:

." . . I still drive a gas powered Ford Fusion, I would gladly ride a bicycle some of my travels, if I lived in a climate warm enough to do it most of the year, or would drive an electric vehicle, if I lived in a home that would allow me to plug it in. But I don't live in such a place, and my condo apt, fits my needs best for housing, as well as being affordable.

Although I loathe, detest, and despise DJT, I'm relieved that he put the brakes on Joe Biden's electric vehicle (EV) mandate.

As a retiree on a fixed income, I am hoping that my current car is My Last Car. I don't want to spend my precious savings on another car during my "golden years." My previous car served me well for 32 years. If my current car lasts that long, I'll be buried in it.

When I was forced to buy another car, I considered an electric vehicle (EV). I wanted to go EV. It wasn't feasible. Like you, BD, my residence is a condo. I live in a complex that does not have garages, let alone electric charging stations. A woman whom I worked with leased an electric version of my current car. I asked her how she liked it. She replied that having an EV as her main transportation would be difficult. So when the lease was up, she went back to a gas-powered car.

My gripe with Biden's "EV mandate" is the same gripe that I have with The Promise made by terminally upbeat utopians. You know The Promise: "There's a Great Big Beautiful Tomorrow!"

Even more irritating than The Promise, it's fantasts' blasé, cold-hearted callousness that turns me lycanthropic. Incurably starry-eyed idealists are damnably blind to the havoc that their wonderful (ruthless) plans will wreak upon those less fortunate than they are and those ill-prepared for the glorious Wave of the Future.

"What's that? You say you'll get drowned in the process? Gee. Hard cheese and too bad if you can't keep up. Can't fight evolution, y'know! Can't stop progress! Now make way! Make way! Get -- Out -- Of -- The -- Way, damn you!"

So true. Those who are affluent and privileged often forget about or disregard those less well off, as well as those who are old and not inclined or even capable of adapting to every new tech change that comes along, and is forced on all of us. In my case, I have the money to afford a smartphone, but have no interest and relatively little need, at least so far, to get one and learn how to use it. I would much rather stick to my trusty laptop for all my internet and use my cordless landline phone for almost all my phone calls, at least when I am home and available to talk to others. Anyway, I have so few people that I do voice phone calls with, that I have almost no need to ever talk to or be available for phone chats when I'm not at home. About the only thing that a smartphone would gain for me, would be to allow me to use Facebook Dating, which is free, but is not available in a web version, only for smartphones. As jaded as I am these days about dating sites, that gives me little incentive to get the smartphone just for that option, tho all my friends have and use smartphones for almost all their internet and all of their phone activity, as well as for keeping their schedules on it, while I stay with my $12 Staples appt. book.

I'm not poor, nor am I really cheap, but I try to be wise and prudent about how I use my money and tech options, for both my welfare and that of the greater good. I guess part of me would be comfortable with being Amish...

20 hours ago, BobDylan said:

". . . In my case, I have the money to afford a smartphone, but have no interest and relatively little need, at least so far, to get one and learn how to use it . . ."

After years of resisting smartphone mania, I finally succumbed last spring and bought an iPhone. I was convinced of its usefulness when a friend demonstrated the GPS utility to me and also when I witnessed GPS navigation used by an Uber driver. For me, GPS navigation makes a smartphone invaluable and indispensable. No more trying to read and understand maps. No more driving with one eye on printed directions and one eye on the road. I was especially impressed when the GPS navigator on my phone alerted me, "There is an object in the road 500 feet ahead." Zounds!

Other features that make my iPhone a sound, worthwhile purchase are online check deposit*; digital grocery store coupons; and portable, instant weather information.

But one thing that I will never use my iPhone for is to type prolix screeds on nBP. I have neither the patience nor dexterity to endure that ordeal.

*	Last fall I was shamefully flim-flammed at an ATM by two con artists who suckered me out of my debit card. Now that I have the ability to do mobile check deposits, there will be no more such ATM dramas -- and trips to the bank -- for Yours Truly!

I hear you on the GPS feature of smartphones, but I'm a longtime professional driver, including bus driving, who's pretty good at following my nose and maintaining my sense of direction regarding where I'm going. I also rarely leave my local metro area, all of which I already know very well by memory, of all the places I ever go to in that area. So the only time I really would benefit from a smartphone for directions, would be if I made a road trip to a strange city that I'd never visited before. Because if I fly somewhere, I'm not going to rent a car, but instead will use taxis. So if I visit a new city by car, I will just continue to print out directions to my place I'm staying or visiting specifically, such as a concert venue or a hotel, and then follow my nose to find a place to eat, etc.. I can't remember the last time I used my ATM/debit card, as my credit union has three branches in my suburb, so I just transfer money by phone from my money market account to checking, and otherwise visit the branches to get cash. In both cases, I use human tellers to get cash or make the transfers on the phone.

On 2/16/2026 at 3:16 PM, BobDylan said:

". . . the only time I really would benefit from a smartphone for directions, would be if I made a road trip to a strange city that I'd never visited before . . ."

Another (to me) interesting feature of the GPS utility on my iPhone is that I can select an accented voice for the navigator. I chose a voice that sounded just like a former flame . . .

Medusa	Me
"At this light, turn right. I said 'turn RIGHT!' You NEVER listen to me!"	"I know a shortcut."
"See, this is why we didn't work out! You don't follow directions . . . like don't veer off the route . . . and off-topic! . . . And STOP ogling that blonde in the crosswalk!"	"Yes, Dear."
"In five miles, take the next exit. And for the love of God, take a LifeSaver or an Altoids or something! Every time you open your mouth, my circuits start to melt."	"Yes, Dear."
"Did you just roll your eyes at me? Stay in this lane for the next two miles. Then turn left."	"Yes, Dear. I mean, No, Dear. I mean . . ."
"At the stoplight, turn right. Then stop somewhere and get me a drink. I'm thirsty."	"Thirsty?! How can you be thirsty? You don't have a mouth. You're not a real person."
"OH NO, HE DI-INT! Let me tell you something, Mr. Man! . . . DON'T YOU DARE touch End Route!"	"Yes, Dear."

. . . to get that, y'know, "Girlfriend Experience."

The girlfriend experience.....Charlie Harper would be so proud of you, mac, lol...

"At the stoplight, turn right. Then stop somewhere and get me a drink. I'm thirsty."

I've been musing to myself about the first Alexa virus where she starts being difficult and talking back, etc. Has that already happened?

Alexa.

.

.

.

Alexa?

.

.

.

ALEXA!

WHAT???!!!

I loved the dialouge Mac! Certainly worth the effort.

OK, I guess this got really off-topic now...

To Mac's point about combatting climate change during our affordability crisis...

My understanding about what can be expected of us citizens is and should be tied to what is reasonably possible and therein lies a dilemma; who decides what is reasonable if not the person making the decision? I want an electric car. I drive a gas car. I have no guilt. I do have concerns. I will switch if and when I can by my own reconing. That may not be possible before I expire. That may be possible before I expire. I do not want to be forced to not drive to save the planet when a US regime change can nullify and largly walk back WAY PAST everything I've done within my power to move the climate change needle in the direction I thnk it should go. I do not take responsibility for doing everything possible at every step I can see where I can make a difference because that view is hubris. I am a committed believer in combatting climate change. I am not in conflict with my dicisions on this issue so far.