given that street or building protests only get as much attention as the media will allow, it is questionable how effective it can be. Of course, disrupting traffic or businesses gains attention but has legal ramifications.

calling and writing officials and reps is helpful, but everyone knows it doesn't take much energy or commitment. So I doubt it moves the needle sufficiently.

posting and sharing can be informative but the other side can post and share too.

seems to me the winner is boycotting. If businesses' glutinous craving for profits brought out their monster, it can be tamed by withholding their meals. And posting and sharing can fuel the boycott and feed us.

Mac, we don't need more Panthers. we need more MLK's.

gentlemen, or, should i say, warriors

your sentiments are understandable given the current pressures on our psyches. But Malcolm X was wrong. Violence as an offensive strategy is always wrong. He accomplished nothing but to feed into the stereotypes that fueled racism. MLK succeeded by inspired masses of people to protest, including non-blacks. Gandhi also proved that masses don't need clubs, knives, or guns in their hand.

the "fight fire with fire" philosophy, which we need today, is one that utilizes all legal, non-violent methods to confront violence and illegality. We have, unfortunately, been subjected to the creep of immorality to the extent that good people like yourselves may now be open to unethical behavior as a counter measure. The creep started with this Prez getting away with breaking laws and moral standards in his first term, and treating both citizens and non-citizens inhumanely. The first key breakdown was those on the left, granted him permission to treat "illegals" inhumanely.

in sociological terms this rogue leader has tapped into the "reptilian" part of the human brain often described as the "fight or flight" instinct in nature. We have evolved, should have evolved beyond that. In esoteric terms, it could be called a separation from source -- the energy we all share. Or, in some wise words of a light transmitter, "do unto others as you would have them do unto you."

practically speaking, morality can not be forced via immoral methods. For one thing, don't wager on ethical beings swinging a sword with more force and accuracy than the immoral. The immoral are better at violence, destruction, and intimidation -- without limitations of mercy or empathy.

nay, brothers, we didn't go wrong by not fighting with them physically. we went wrong by not fighting with them intellectually and spiritually. And the tool at hand, that was not applied and enforced was LEGALITY. Yes, we're missing some laws, but enough were in place to get the job done during the first administration. We mistakenly trusted politicians on the left to do their jobs rather than just focus on keeping their jobs the next election because the other side was worse.

To reiterate and summarize. Justice is a legal matter. The strength that matters is not physical. It's in numbers. Not weapons.

Re-align with what IS right, rather than mimic bad behavior on the Right!

transcript of live conversation

LINDY: i believe international law needs to come into play. NATO should take action

V3: i'm a firm believer in the United Nations concept, but i believe the other nations right now would say it's up to the American people to step up

I don't know. we are protesting. calling and writing. telling them they will lose elections. what else can we do?

we need to circle the wagons. unite, and leave aside our strategic differences to organize/coordinate action with a focus on consumer pressure. No Kings Day is a general protest, without calling for specific action. We need leaders and political organizations to work together on boycotts primarily, and protests to support that action.

We tried a boycott. It doesn't seem to work.

we've haven't tried it TOGETHER. It is the together part that is our weakness. the last blackout was misguided, mistimed, and lacked the right message communicated widely.

How can we get Congressional results if he has control of everything?

it starts with Democrats and rational Republicans taking all the legal steps, as per their oath. Call for investigations and initiate impeachments and force the Republicans to block responsible action at the risk of not being re-elected.

We need people to walk out of work too. but it's very hard to do

you said it. unfortunately, there are limits to citizen's willingness to sacrifice

what about not paying taxes

same thing. that's illegal and people would have to be willing to go to jail

not if we all do it together

yes, the TOGETHER thing is the key. we can accomplish anything together, at the same time, we have the power

what if the King withholds funding for blue states as punishment

he would be breaking the law and it would again come down to our Reps starting the impeachment and citizens forcing it into reality

1 hour ago, macphysto said:

Say that to Holocaust survivors

preventing the holocaust is consistent with the approach i outlined. Hitler committed crimes before those atrocities that should have been enforced and justice should have been served before he got out of hand. Indeed laws and justice need to be enforced physically, with weapons if need be. And when Hitler's country allowed the atrocities, the world should step in with force -- weapons if all else fails.

this Prez committed crimes that should have already been brought to justice, force-ably if need be. But not by you or i with pitchforks. The system is in place. It's been abused and corrupted. Civility and integrity is still valued by a significant majority.

a stronger argument would be, what were our alternatives to the Civil War? I'd have to think about that...

ok... the answer is the same. Don't buy products made from slave labor. Don't socialize with slavers and have dinner served by slaves at someone's house. Work to pass laws. If laws aren't obeyed, perhaps offer to buy out slaves. If money doesn't work as a last resort, pull out the pitchforks. I'm not up for the unaliving, but i'll stick one in a slavers ass, and let them sit on it for a while.

continued transcript of live conversation...

LINDY:
we've tried everything else. maybe it's time for physical action

V3: what is everything we tried?

protesting, boycotting. laws.

regarding protests/boycotts, minimally. The NO KINGS days is the tip of the iceberg compared to what is required to get it done. do you remember the civil rights movement?

sort of. i wasn't paying attention as a child

there were ongoing masses in the streets. You don't get things done by skipping the protest part and moving right to the pitchfork stage. Even when you do get to the pitchfork stage the change will not happen here because we physically defeat the dictator's forces. Sadly, it will happen when citizens have had enough of soldiers killing citizens and there's no more support for the dictator. We're watching it happen in Iran, and those people are used to religious dictators in power. Americans will not tolerate it for long.

regarding laws, yes most are in place. they need to be enforced. example: we passed the Epstein bill, but we didn't enforce it. we need a campaign to force our politicians to enforce it

(sigh) who is going to enforce these laws? the Supreme Court and Congress is his

that's the biggest mistake we make. they're ALL ours! It's a matter of demanding what is ours
for example, we all seem to have this reverence for the the idiots on the Supreme Court instead of giving them a massive dose of our mind on the steps of their court

you know what's going to happen. he'd call in the troops

fine. the people can yell at the troops

and if someone gets pushed you're not going to push back?

no

you're going to let them beat you up?

yes. you'll get beaten up worse if you resist

you've got no Brooklyn in you whatsoever

correct. i was raised in Queens. but i grew-up in the West

(hyperventilating) how can you talk about people power, when there is a solid lock of supporters who, apparently, support their team, right or wrong

don't forget that one team is COMMANDED by one man. but yes, our friends and neighbors are the key to the whole thing. and the news that they watch. Dealing effectively with both of those elements needs a full thread of its own. (sigh)

i keep hearing Renee saying "i'm not mad at you" before she was slaughtered

the details of that homicide have not escaped the vast majority of the public. It will become part of the regime's undoing

let's leave it at that. i have to go out

yes, go blow the stink off of yourself

Quote

"Thoreau, Gandhi, and Martin Luther King all engaged in civil disobedience, and are widely admired for doing so. But how can democratic society function if each person’s conscience has to be satisfied for a law to be obeyed? When is civil disobedience justified? When is it required?

it's a good question. And that's why violence is a bad idea. If protest is questionable, violence to force your ideas is obviously worse. But the question is the answer.

protest is not about forcing your will on others, it should be about forcing society to QUESTION it's behavior. To examine it. The devil is in the details, and those details need to be exposed.

unfortunately, sometimes, society doesn't care. people are selfish and the power mongers are manipulative. so you keep trying. Slavery, anti-civil rights, women's rights and gay rights were all examples of irrational, bad behavior but we only stuck each other with bayonets over one of them because it crossed a threshold of inhumanity.